I think my dalliance with #android may be coming to an end. I bought this titan 2 phone backing a kickstarter. It has been very unreliable. Maybe it is android 15. Maybe it is my wacky settings (i try to log out of google and do as little with them as possible). I restrict or remove permissions on a lot of stuff. It could be instability in the maker's mods to android. I don't know. But i deal with crashes. A lot

The fact is that two email programs (Thunderbird and K-9) won't run. They literally crash when opened. ProtonVPN crashes as soon as i tap "sign in". I cant remember the last time i dealt with this on my #iPhone. With this android phone it's a daily thing. I used the built-in gmail app and even it crashes sometimes.

I still don't have all my #nextcloud services integrated. I have installed TWO helper apps already (DAVx and IMAP notes) to get contacts, calendars, and notes. I STILL don't have reminder lists working. All these things were effortless on IOS. On android it's not supported out of the boxand i have to search OME workaround.

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And frankly, the physical keys are nice for some things but they're much more work to type. I'm slower, less accurate, and my hands get tired. Today is Sunday and i got it Wednesday night. IM not sure i will last a week.

Goddamn:every time i type "I'm" i have to slow down and fix it. See that "IM" in the sentence above? if i type I M space, fucking assistive typing will insert IM by default. By now it should have learned that i mean "I'm"

I'm constantly looking for the non-Google option for stuff, like photos, contacts, email. The possibility of a non-proprietary app store was attractive in theory. In practice my bank, and major apps i use are only in the Play store. I can't control where they publish.

I'll thread more later. My hands are tired.
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@paco this will probably be the first in a flood of recommendations with varying degrees of accuracy and quality, but let me be the first to recommend you to try a used pixel with #GrapheneOS. The family and i have been using that setup for a while now, couldn't be happier, and very little adjustments had to be made in how we use our phones.

@woodstock Take a look at the thread and some of the google-specific annoyances, like getting nextcloud services working. I do as little with google as possible. The suggestions are more helpful if they mention the things I'm frustrated with.

@paco this is a very niche device to use android on so to base your opinion on Android around it is a little unfair. Trying Android on a Pixel device you'll find it a much smoother experience. Alternative app stores aren't even a thing in all parts of the world in iOS. Muscle memory is a bitch to over cone going from touch to physical keyboard. I remember when iphone and Android first came out, it took several years to perfect preventing misclicks (at least in my case)

@paco Hi! I'm super happy about #grapheneos on a refurbished pixel 8a. Everything I need is working: DAVx, Nextcloud, Thunderbird, CoMaps, Conversations, GadgetBridge, F-Droid, TOR...
Check it out and feel free to ask me if you have any specific question. 🙂

@paco f-droid for open source apps... And aurora store for banking apps.... Tuta mail for mail.. Ente & aves Libre for photos.. Fossify for contacts and phone.. Quiksms for messaging... Fennec for browsing... Rest u can ask any help

@cienmilojos I hear you. I think you misread one thing: alternative app stores was an attraction to Android. They don't exist in iOS in any meaningful way. But what I'm saying is even though they exist, they don't work all that well in Android, practically speaking.

The app crashes might be related to this being a niche device with a crappy Android implementation. But if I understand this post from @galaxis correctly, the crappy integration between email, calendar, reminders, and notes is an Android thing. It would be the same on any android device. Even with a small ecosystem of helper apps, Android still ends up less integrated. On my iphone I use zero google services and zero icloud services. I run 100% self hosted email, and I run calendar, contacts, notes, and reminders on nextcloud. And I can't tell. It all works as fully integrated on iOS as if they were from Apple themselves. No helper apps, and no functionality gaps.

I get it that my hands getting tired is a physical keyboard thing, but that's not an android complaint.

@GOKUSHRM Maybe you didn't read the thread. I already use F-droid and my complaint is that major apps aren't there. Aurora will get me the major apps, exactly as they are in the Play store, so I don't see the relevance. (I get why Aurora is better than the Play store, but that isn't what I'm complaining about)

I have self-hosted email, self-hosted calendar and contacts, self-hosted reminders and tasks, and self-hosted notes. I'm not looking to stop using what I have and switch to services provided by Tuta or anyone else. And if that markdown editor for notes doesn't use IMAP to read and write the notes that I already have, it's not useful.

I am not getting started. I have 20 years of mobile phone history and usage. 27 years hosting my own email. I'm trying to change my phone. I'm not trying to change all the online services that I use for my digital life in order to make #Android work.

So more #Android woes. Android Auto is a dealbreaker. I have a BOSS BE7ACP car stereo. It claims Android and CarPlay support. CarPlay is fine. Not great, because sometimes it crashes. But 99% reliable. Android Auto isn't working at all. Now, it could be the cable. But there is a sizeable Reddit thread that suggests this particular unit is really unreliable with Android Auto.

I am not giving up my car stereo integration to switch from #iphone to #Android. And I'm not buying a new car stereo so that it will work with my phone.

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@paco ohk... I thought u were looking some Google replacement..i was also thinking about self host but thn I realize that I don't even use sync service for my photos or contacts or Callender so cloud service or self hosting is waste for me 😁 😁.. I backup everything classic style (hard drive or pendrive) ☺️

@dat Yeah. Since I'm so new to Android, I don't have an intuitive sense of which apps are scummy and which aren't. I downloaded the Edison Mail app and it works fine. It's actually kinda nice. Then I saw a bunch of AI integration that can't be disabled. It bugs me, but I can limit it some.

It's a mystery why email, calendar, and contacts are so badly supported. These are some of the most basic, oldest, primitive services on the Internet. They have been defined and supported longer than some Android developers have been alive.

@paco it does sound like this particular phone has quite some issues. Might not all be related to Android, though? if you want a more consumer oriented degoogled phone experience, I've heard good things about the Murena e/OS ecosystem. I use a degoogled LineageOS phone & for my purposes this works fine. Maybe this info helps.

@paco @galaxis because my email is not self hosted the thought never crossed my mind to use the device in that way. Sounds like iOS (for now anyway) is a more complete product or kept parts of a bygone mobile era (as far as a full fleet of productivity apps, like what happened to outlook express for windows) Even blackberry had a decent set of email and cal apps that weren't beholden to a service. I'm very tempted to go back to iOS now. Just need to figure out the Hitchhikers guide to self hosting email without losing your sanity. Android in its current state is truly very piecemeal and heavily reliant on Google Services. In order to get an Android device to work as well as you described you definitely have to put in some extra effort and then pray that one of those cogs doesn't go square. I see a lot of people recommending Graphene and that is all well if you have a Pixel device and can sort out settings up a cabaret of 3rd party apps to do exactly what you need them to do.

@markus
I self-host my email, calendar, contacts, task reminders, and notes. All run in my house on a combination of email server and nextcloud. On the iphone i can't tell that it's not icloud. That is, they work exactly as as well as integrated gmail or icloud.

I get an SMS message from someone: I tap on the phone number and "create contact" is an option. I add name and details, and it is stored via CardDAV to my nextcloud contacts. I get a google calendar invite in my self-hosted email (via IMAP) and tap on it. It gets added to my CalDAV calendar on my nextcloud calendar. I have done ZERO to create this integration other than enter the URL, name, and passwords for my self-hosted services. No DAVx helper app. No 3rd-party integrations.

I could do all this on an iphone that just came out of the box, without even signing into icloud or the Apple app store.

What I described is impossible in stock Android. And a lot of it won't work this well, even after I spend the time to integrate the required 3rd party apps.

@dat

@dat I'm not
complaining about the effort. I literally cited use cases that I think cannot be done. I'm not scared of effort, but I don't think with effort these can be done. (unless "with effort" includes becoming an Android developer and writing it my damn self).

Since I typed that, I figured out how to save SMS phone numbers as DAV contacts if I have the 3rd party DAV app. Sometimes (like silencing the audio notifications) it's just knowing where to tap.

It's not the level of effort, it's that the functionality is neither in Google's base apps nor available by third party apps. Even after the effort, the result is an email/calendar/contact/reminders experience that is inferior to what I could get in any stock iPhone from the last 20 years.

@markus

Another thing i miss from my iPhone? My mastodon app @IceCubesApp ! I've gotten quite used to it. I like how it works.

I thought i read that tusky for android wasn't being maintained (thought didn't check), so i went with the official app. It's... Fine? Nothing special. Not as nice. I'm using it now to post this.
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This aspect of the #android keyboard is going to drive me mad. A bunch of conjunctions should be the default completion for these letter combos. The one in a cyan color and/or in the center is what would come out if i pressed space or a punctuation mark. These are super uncommon words compared to the corresponding conjunction. What is the fix for this?
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@paco how about a new car with wireless Android Auto?
Totally worth it!

@paco
Does it depend on which keyboard you use?

I'm using the FUTO keyboard on Android and the defaults for me are the proper contractions.

@paco my iPhone does the same thing. Lol

@paco @woodstock
I've gotten Thunderbird and Nextcloud working on GrapheneOS. Android Auto, too. If you're willing to find a Pixel phone and mess with it. I don't know if it works on the Titan. I'd loan you my extra to try out but I don't think you're near by.

@DefectiveWings this thing has a physical keyboard. The software says "Kika-Keyboard" for the on-screen component

Another culture shock between android and iPhone: visual voicemail. I have #tmobile (US) as my carrier. If i use an iPhone, the built-in visual voicemail app just works. I get pretty solid transcriptions and its easy peasy.

On android? T-Mobile makes you download a separate, bullshit app. It will let you see and delete messages. But transcriptions? You have to pay $4/month for some "premium" service to get those.

The in-built voicemail icon alerts me i have a voicemail, but If i use it, its your classic "press 7 to delete" like we did in 1995. I can delete it un-heard with the T-Mobile app. Or can get the whole seamless experience free on an iPhone.

https://www.t-mobile.com/support/plans-features/t-mobile-visual-voicemail-app

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@paco Wow, all this sounds like an unusually terrible experience (that T-Mobile may be exacerbating).

This is not to say that you should try a different Android phone or anything - I mean, if iOS works for you, sure, stick with iOS, no judgment from me - but I wouldn't want you to come away with the impression that Android users everywhere are having this much trouble with their phones and just putting up with it. 😅

@paco sounds like you should have tried a pixel instead of a Titan...

@diazona That was part of my motivation: I figured roughly half the people use android and half the people use apple. It can't be THAT bad.

But I seem to have either some edge case requirements that others don't, or some habits I won't give up. (I am an old man, after all) Plus there's the weirdness of a one-off phone that seems to have some idiosyncracies. And my carrier is being an ass about Android phones.

@paco @IceCubesApp Moshidon is probably the best app currently for Mastodon on Android.

@paco tmobile texts me a voice mail transcription. I don't think it is an extra setting or app though

@nikkid Their web site lists 2 tiers of plans. According to the T-mobile app I installed, I can select that if I have a higher plan or if I subscribe to it specifically. I’m pretty sure I’m on the lowest feature, sim-only plan.

When I use an iPhone, i seem to get the transcription right in the visual voicemail app at no extra charge. I have no idea whether the transcription is done by t-mobile, Apple in the cloud somehow, or my phone device.

@paco well that's annoying.

@paco Which major #FLOSS apps are you missing from #FDroid?

@fdroidorg I’m not missing any FLOSS apps. I have to use a bunch of proprietary/commercial apps for businesses that I work with. I love the idea of #FDroid and I wish more apps were there. And I wish there was an equivalent for iOS. My comment was that (being inexperienced) I had expected to get more use out of FDroid. I didn’t realise how many apps I use that wouldn’t be in the FDroid store.

In the end, one of the dealbreakers for me was having to stitch together my personal cloud by having multiple apps from multiple teams that don’t create an integrated experience. Mail, calendar, contacts, notes, reminders. I need 4 apps to get these 5 things: email, davx, imapnotes, and something for reminders. I selfhost everything and this was clunky.

I’ve come to the conclusion that we are all boiled frogs. I’ve been in the iPhone ecosystem so long I didn’t realise how boiled I was. Android users are similar. Things that look like deal breaking limitations to me are just little idiosyncrasies that Android users shrug off. And things that drive android users crazy and away from iOS are obviously things I just shrug and put up with.

I thought I would be more flexible than I was.